Isn’t getting an atheist to explain to you why god doesn’t exist kind of like making a defendant on trial explain to the family of a deceased victim why he is innocent? First off, if you are to present a claim that god exists (or put a person on trial), there must be an impartial judge. I don’t know you personally, but I think I can safely assume you are not exactly impartial on this subject.

Second, if you are to claim that god exists, why should atheists be forced to prove that he (or she) doesn’t? Should the onus not be on you to provide solid evidence (besides dreams and visions and old hand-written scrolls) that god does exist? Finally, I think this whole section is useless, and only a sparkplug for hatred. There are many irreconcilable differences between the positions of atheists and yourself.

We can have differing viewpoints and still get things accomplished. I’m sure we both believe in charity. Would I be right in assuming we both believe in health care for all? Then why would you say something like this: “I’ll be there with Jesus and we’ll be both howling with laughter as you and your primitive dog of a lover Dawkins are consumed in righteous hell fire.”…how Christian of you. And you wonder why so many people stay away from religion (and specifically extremism)?

Could it be that we perhaps appreciate other humans beings, even if they have differing viewpoints? Why would we want to get caught up in something as hate filled as your supposedly “merciful” religion? I would rather spend my time promoting love…what a foreign concept!

Why not go one step further my friend and immerse yourself in the Love and Word of God? We don’t have evidence for God’s existence, you just have to trust that he’s there. He still loves you even though you think he smells worse than a dungeon worth of maggots.

And though now we largely can easily explain many of the events listed above to the common populace and they generally have died out as religious stimulants, the ultimate questions of how and why the universe came about and human consciousness including my ability to explore these thoughts remains the grand mystery which science has not explained completely and probably will not in the immediate future, if ever.

So has science marginalized religion into an ever decreasing role, diminishing its importance?  Certainly some feel justified in having this opinion while others insist that as long as the grand mystery remains the door to believing in God is wide open.

The real bottom line, however, is that we objectively really just don’t know for absolute certainty. Though many people interpret a variety of life experiences as mystical or miraculous in some way or having a strong hint of the presence of a god, the difference between factual, irrefutable knowledge – that which can be shared with others over and over and I don’t merely mean told as stories but re-experienced through observable, repeatable, recordable demonstration – and belief is a large part of the division between science and religion.

Every story I have heard a religious person say or read in a religious book that breaks the basics laws of reality as we know it is either experienced only by a single individual, a small group, has a wide latitude for misinterpretation (people making mistaken judgments based on lack of complete and correct sensory information to correctly interpret reality as it is), can not be repeated, or is deliberately distorted/exaggerated to appear “miraculous” in order to attract further attention to his or her religious beliefs to increase personal substantiation of such beliefs.  And certainly in ancient times when religions were just beginning and competing for converts with young members being extremely charismatic along with the fact that logical, scientific ideology was not very popular among the masses of struggling poor and uneducated, religious conversion had a very strong appeal.

My friend you will never find out how the universe began through science. You will not find certainty in science either, but only through knowing and trusting in God.

You sound like an intelligent fellow, my advice is to seek refuge within God’s loving bosom and you’ll be rewarding in Heaven for all eternity for your Trust.

I would rather like to hear you prove that god DOES exist. The scientific method is to collect evidence and than come up with a hypothesis. Religion does the opposite. Religion claims to have all the answers, so show us the evidence. The reality is that neither side of this argument can prove the existence of a creator. But because of the scientific method many don’t recognize religion as true. If you brought any theory to the scientific community without any evidence, it would not be accepted or turned into a theory.

The duty is not on us (atheists) to prove that god doesn’t exist, because you have yet to prove that he does.

What you fail to understand is that religion and science are two separate areas that do not overlap. We do not have to prove to the scientists that God exists.

As Christians we don’t even have to acknowledge science at all. I mean really, what has it done for us? It’s caused nothing but grief, eugenics and abortion. We’d be better off living in a world without science altogether.

The truth is that you don’t want to have a relationship with God which is your choice.

So I am reading all of your posts/comebacks to the atheists on this site.  Everything you say accuses us atheists of being horrible people and not accepting other ways.  Isn’t that being a hypocrite because you simply are not accepting this as the tiniest bit of a possibility.  You say that people who do not believe in god are incapable of love.  Well people may love God but that is not the only thing in the world to love.  There are many other things, made by a god or not that can be loved and people do not have to believe in the “creator” to have respect and appreciation of these things.

Either way, everything was made somehow and I don’t think that has an affect on how people live their lives.  Everyone should be expected to have respect and to be good people by helping others and living a succesful crimefree life.  That is common sense.  Atheists are not cruel people and are not any different than you except for the fact that we do not have the same belief in what created the world or what happens when we die.

I think that the earth is exactly as it appears to be and isn’t that more believable because what you see is the truth and the saying is “Believe half of what you see and none of what you hear” Christianity was passed on orally until the bible was written so that means a ton of lies were all compiled into a big book.

Also you say atheism is planning to destroy society? Well when has Christianity been declared as the official way of life? God is a theory not fact and there may be so called “evidence” but there are many holes in this theory.  And has it ever occurred to you that people know the truth about god not being real and are keeping it from you instead of the other way around? Think about it, if tomorrow Pope Benedict told us God is fake, the crime rates would multiply greatly because of the fact that there would be no hell and we wouldn’t have to worry about the 10 commandments and not sinning.

Religion to me seems like a way to keep society in line and have a reason to be good instead of just enforcing laws because jail is not as bad as this so called “hell” and that would be a greater punishment.  But if this theory were proven wrong then people would go crazy and have no reason to be good unless of course you are an atheist and have known all along and are a good person because you want to be not because you have to be or else you will go to “hell”.

That seems conceited for christians because in the end you are just doing it for yourself, not to better or help others but because you are setting yourself up for a good “After life” or to get a place in heaven.  You should do good things because you genuinly want others to benefit from your good deeds.  Not because you have to! If you want to go to heaven that just means that you are doing these things to benefit yourself in the longrun.  So youre good deeds may help now but your breasoning for doing so is skewed.

And if God made everyone wouldnt he “program” us to automatically believe in him?   Instead of everyone having different opinions? Just because there are more people who believe in God than not, doesnt make it true.  No matter how many people you get on “your side” it is not evidence and never will be.  In a million years there will be another view on things and this will be dismissed as being stupid and unrealistic.

Obviously you are clueless and think you are right.  But if you open your eyes and see what is even easier to believe than i think you would see things how i do.  It is simply impossible.

-Eve Lombardi

Eve I respect your opinion but you’re wrong. You assume that Christians belief is shallow and self-serving, but you don’t give us credit where credit’s due. If any Church figure were to come out tomorrow to tell us God was fake then we would know in our hearts that he was lying. God lives on within us through the Holy Spirit which cannot be denied.

We don’t believe in God just because of the reward of Heaven. Our love of God extends beyond anything as fickle as that!

Your point about God programming us to believe in him is invalid as he has given us the gift of free will to choose to spend eternity with Him or Satan.

If your parents had told you over and over since birth that you should believe in “Jack in the Beanstalk” you would be kneeling to that!  The funniest is when the believers thank “God” that they survived after “God” kills their neighbors in the same hurricane…

I think “Jesus” and “God” live somewhere close to the Easter bunny…P.S.

Do you realise that the “sacred heart” relates to pagan beliefs and sacrafices that continued into Christianity?  How about “drinking” and “eating” the body of Christ in the Catholic ceremony??  Sounds pretty pagan and barbaric to me.  Think about it – direct from paganism and human sacrafice.  Same with the bloody cross with a body hanging on it – a lust for human blood and sacrafice.  Also, these pictures look gay!!!

There’s a difference between Jack and the Beanstalk and Christianity my friend and it’s that Jack never claimed to be the one and living Christ.

What’s wrong with drinking and eating the body of Christ in a ceremony? We’re allowed to celebrate our religion in the way we see fit just like you’re entitled to be a godless communist my friend.

This atheist believes that God is a sadistic narcissist.

An omniscient and omnipotent being, upon creating the universe, would know exactly how what it created would turn out and in what way that conclusion would be reached. This means that, if you believe in this type of deity, free will does not exist. Hence all things good or bad are it’s fault. Why would a benevolent being create rape, murder or suffering in general? It cannot be described as a test, as the being already knows with certainty who would pass and who wouldn’t. Why would it create ‘evil’ beings? And, if it would why on Earth would choose to worship such a sadistic narcicist?

God did not create rape, murder or suffering! All of these are evil tools of the Devil designed to turn good people away from God my friend.

It was not God’s intention for any of this to happen. He is not a sadistic narcissist.

He loves you!

This will be quick. I’ll tell you when I became Atheist…is when I saw Jesus. I was severely dehydrated from an field expedition and was rushed to hospital and while I was in bed, I saw Jesus.

It was the typical iconic image (good looking white guy, wearing white robes with light coming around him) and he approached the end of my bed. In his hands was a glowing cake box (the kind you get at small town bakeries) and he told me Mary was in it.

He then said goodbye and left. After that, I had a second hallucination, that my work colleagues were around my bed trying to bite me.

Neither of this made any sense, and then I realized something a few days afterwards. I wondered if every person who had seen a deity of sorts just imagined it, like I had. These are the reasons I deny it being real;

1. Jesus was black, this Jesus was white.
2. The cake box made absolutely no sense…
3. and neither did my work-mates biting me.

If God was real, I’d like to think he would have corrected me at some point…but of course this doesn’t disprove religion at all…just like seeing Jesus doesn’t prove religion. Just like to know your views on this?

P.S. I’m not a: criminal, drug addict, illiterate, immoral person, before you flat out slander me.

Before we continue – have you ever considered that this was a message from God?

Jesus was trying to speak to you that day my boy. He brought his ‘cake box’ to represent the eternal gift that he came to offer you, which was only made possible by the Holy Mother who was inside and held dearly in the arms by Loving Jesus.

Why the hell else would she have been in the box? Are you trying to say that it was all just a meaningless hallucination?

It would only be considered one if you were smacked off your whiskers on bourbon or cheap crack, but not if you were just feeling a little ‘under the weather’.

Your ‘evil’ workmates signaled your ultimate destiny if you continue on leading a Godless life. God was telling you that you must turn away from them now otherwise they will end up biting you for all eternity in Hell.

It was a vision my boy. A vision.

You’ve obviously been chosen by God to be a messenger and I suggest that you dedicate your life to prayer and devotion in order to receive more messages from God.

And does it really matter what color Jesus was in your hallucination? God loves men of every color and creed.

Thanks for your enlightening post and all the best.

Your friend Don.

The claim that there is an omnipotent god is not falsifiable – she could make the world however she wanted, and so no matter what observations we make, they wouldn’t contradict the theory.

Good scientific explanations, however, are falsifiable. Everything has to fit the data. God could make a creature with genes and characteristics of a plant, and some of a mammal if he wanted to, and that would be consistent with creationism.

However, an evolutionary origin of life requires that the genetic relationship of species is in the form of a hierarchical phylogenetic tree. It allows some traits to evolve independently (bats and birds can both fly – but when genetic analysis is used to find out why birds and bats can fly, the developmental pathways are different).

A good explanation fits the specific data (is not falsified), but would not fit all data (is falsifiable). I could make up any number of unfalsifiable theories – gods, invisible pink unicorns, flying spaghetti monsters, and invisible pixies in my garden – but I wouldn’t accept them and change how I live my life because of them, because evidence is only meaningful if it could falsify the explanation, and so there is no meaningful evidence for them.

However, I will give your god a chance to prove his existence to me, if you agree to do the same. Will you pray to god that we will both get 200 heads in a row from my coin (I promise you, it is two-sided, with a head and tail, with an approximately 50% chance of getting a head or tail each time).

If god wants me to believe, and you to stay believing, presumably it would be no trouble for her to influence the outcome of 200 coin tosses to make them come up heads (if not, obviously your god is not exactly omnipotent and therefore probably not worth worshiping).

If I get 200 heads in a row, I’ll become a Christian. If you get a tail before getting 200 heads, you become an atheist.

Deal?

No deal.

Why do you insist on testing God? He doesn’t want to suck up to your petty little mind games. He’s bigger than you are. He’s more of a man.

It’s obvious to me that you just think that all of this is a joke but we’ll see who is laughing on Judgment Day. I’ll be there with Jesus and we’ll be both howling with laughter as you and your primitive dog of a lover Dawkins are consumed in righteous hell fire.

I won’t be praying for your salvation. I’ll be blowing on my Trumpet, dancing in circles in pure Righteous ecstasy goading Jesus to send you further into the mire for your sins.

I don’t care if my beliefs are falsifiable or not! What does it matter anyway? When it comes down to it I know that Jesus is on my side and the same cannot be said for you.

By the way you’re obviously retarded as if a unicorn is invisible it cannot be ‘pink’.

Did you even go to school at all?

This just goes to prove even more that Atheists are illiterate extremists who are just out to be a menace to Our Christian Nation.

Me convince you?

If I came to you claiming that some supernatural, unseen force was the true source and reason behind everything around us (oh, and gimme some of your tax dollars to subsidize my belief too please), I would rightly bear the burden of proof.

However, as it stands, I don’t feel any burden of proof. You’re the one on the spot with your claims of virgin birth and transmutation of matter and resurrection. Those are some pretty bold statements… Are you sure you can’t show your work?

But theists don’t give arguments which satisfy the non-believers. We’re not asking for a lot: the scientific method is something we expect high school students to learn and put into practice. But as far as I can tell, general theist arguments rely on faith and the personal revelation of God’s grace.

I just read your arguments against Dennis, and you say exactly that: God does not yield to reason; you cannot perceive Him moving in the universe because you are too in love with reason; introspection is the only path to God.

Okay, if you are not going to play by the rules, then lets just call off the game.

Me and my reason-obsessed friends will just go back to applying the scientific method to the world. We’ve been doing OK with it: tripled the average life expentency, cured hundreds of diseases, created machines like the computers we’re all using, developed technology and techniques to feed more than 6 billion people… You’re welcome  by the way.

And you and your buddies can go back to introspection and prayer and feeling the Spirit move. Uhm, thanks for that I guess…

Darryl.

Your ‘reasoned’ friends may have tripled life expentency but is the necessarily a good thing? People are becoming more and more secular as time progresses because of Science and this is leading more away from God. Those who do not accept God into their lives will spend all of eternity in Hell Fire.

What’s the point in hardening these people against God?

You don’t want to see the truth Darryl, which is fine – it’s your choice to remain an uneducated oaf.

You make it seem like you’ve made an effort to understand Life – but you haven’t really. Introspection and prayer have done more for this Earth than science ever will. Science is at a dead end. There is no more to learn. If you knew what you were talking about then this would be self-evident.

People like me see the existence of God and Science (i.e. evolution, the big bang) as companions rather than enemies. Think about it. Now, we have irrefutable proof of the big bang, but we have no idea where the nucleus of matter that exploded INTO the big bang came from. The only possible, current and reasonable explanation is that this matter was designed and brought into the universe by some sort of higher power (or powers.)

To me and many others, this fusion of atheism and creationism makes far more sense than either of them alone, and as such it is what I strongly believe. Call me a non-believer if you will, but I follow both my head and my heart equally.

And one last thing; have you ever realised how much of organised church is just a big power play? Many people who attend church hold God as a tool in their hands, not in their hearts. Even when I was christian I noticed this – it was far better to worship and solitude.

Where you there at the Big Bang my friend? How do you know what happened? You cannot be Christian and reconcile the irreconcible. God created the Earth and we don’t need Science to prove this. We just need instinct and the capacity to analyze the evidence.

You’re a highly confused young man. You need to spend less time on the internet masturbating until your eyes droop and more time praising Christ.

Remember this – Atheists aren’t very good at thinking critically. They spend so much of their time fantasizing about a threesome between themselves, Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens that they don’t have energy to be rational.